Stephanie Pappas must have been really proud when she came up with that title

well tbf plants don’t have their fucking name written on them.

great video! thanks. I’m a sad though vegan outreach has become so defensive in recent years. These stupid anti-vegan narratives have manifested in so many people, even many people on the left.

at no point did the feddit admins defend genocide.

legally speaking, probably both must follow german law. But I’m not a lawyer. I can imagine lemmy.world admins don’t worry as much because they are not from germany, only their servers.

Also I think lemmy.world moderates against holocaust inversion. I have reported comments for that on both instances and comments on lemmy.world were actually more likely to get removed (tbf they were also much more notorious there)

I am too much of an anarchist to care about laws, but I believe any instance should moderate against hatred and strive for a healthy environment where constructive discourse is encouraged and unconstructive/toxic discourse is mitigated. That counts for racism, homophobia, and also for antisemitism or dehumanization of Palestinians.

Now, there are difficult questions about moderation that I am glad I don’t have to answer. But I can confidently say that the language that quokk.au admin used has no place in a healthy online community and it is fair it’s banned from it.

this is to say that calling the Israeli government and stooges Nazis isn’t an invalidation of the Jewish struggle.

I am a lot more tolerant about calling the Israeli government and Israeli fascists Nazis. Semantically, one could make arguments against it, but at this time and day, I’d agree, I have no intention to defend them - they deserve the hatred.

Now, if someone calls the entirety of Zionism, or every Israeli Jew a Nazi is something I oppose. This would be a massive inversion of reality and I don’t want to see that rhetoric on my instance. I know there is nuance and there are a number of things I’d be willing to concede - but I am glad that the most hateful and deranged comments get removed. What this quokk.au admin said is certainly in the territory of being deranged.

If you can show me where “misusing” the label Nazi is worse for the Jewish people and their struggles, than the literal genocide of the Palestinian people by a Jewish state, I’ll change my mind.

I would instead ask you to stop pitting two people’s struggles against each other. We would never compare different types of struggles the same way. One thing is bad. Another thing is worse. But that second thing does not make the first thing okay. Especially when you have the privilege of not being part of either group. If you acknowledge that misusing Nazi labels (on the people oppressed by the Nazis) is wrong, then it follows that you cannot justify doing that by saying that there are other people who are worse off.

You are arguing semantics when we are long past that.

I hope we can concur that in this discussion, neither of us are helping the Palestinians in any kind of form. This whole thread is about a toxic lemmy admin who victimized themself for suffering consequences for their violent/insulting language. I’d feel a lot more comfortable in pro-palestinian spaces that can do without this sort of toxicity.

removing a post about making a distinction between anti-zionism and anti-semitism?

They don’t remove posts or comments that do that. I am quite active on feddit and the general consensus on that instance is pretty pro-palestine. The vast majority of anti-zionist posts do not get removed.

What they (sometimes) remove though is comparions between nazi-germany and Zionism. The admins on that instance argued that doing this may breach German laws, so they decided to remove some of the most notorious comments about that.

I got some translation from their post on it about how they can’t tolerate “accusations” of being called zionists? What’s wrong with accusations? Removing the comment is sufficient evidence for it.

They removed posts because they fear they may violate german law. Also, feddit admins did not defederate from quokk.au because of the accusations - it is because one of their admins harrassed a feddit admin (calling them Nazi scum, wished death upon them - see my above comment) - then defederated quokk.au from feddit because of “Zionism” (which is so dumb if you ask me) - and then feddit defederated quokk.au back

Also there’s something there about such discussions being precarious because it’s against some german,swiss laws?

Holocaust denial/inversion/relativization is something (for good reason) illegal in Germany. Neonazis have been doing this for a long time and obviously it needs to be illegal. When it comes to Israel’s war crimes obviously there is more nuance to this but there are boundaries too. As a german leftist I can say that a lot of us are more careful when it comes to language around the issue. There is a balancing act we have to do and I wish people outside could respect that.

Because it seems like “We will not discuss this because we don’t like this discussion”

In all honesty, this is how I feel about it. I am pro-palestine in pretty much every regard, but I have limits with the language I use. I recognize Zionism as the result of the jewish struggle of the 19th and 20th century. It does not mean I like it or I see it as an ideology that can bring about peace in the region. It also does not mean I justify any of the crimes Israel’s government is doing. But it does mean that I don’t compare it to Nazism. I don’t like this discussion because it leads nowhere. Invalidating/inverting/relativizing the jewish struggle does nothing for the Palestinians and I feel annoyed that so many internet leftists insist so much on doing that. If there is no space for nuance, I am not interested in discussion

feddit.org defederated quokk.au for calling their mods zionists

one of quokk.au’s admins called a feddit’s admin “absolute trash human being” and “nazi cunt”. That seems to be the reason.

Apparently they felt so upset for being banned from feddit that they defederated their instance (quokk.au) from feddit.org altogether. Now feddit.org defederated back.

Honestly that admin just seems insulting and toxic. I’m glad that kind of stuff has no place on my instance.

as you specified a square meter and not cubic meter, you only delete an infinitly thin plane of matter, rendering your superpower useless

you lose the finger you’re snapping. So you can only kill up to 9 dictators.

oh shit oh shit I’ll keep my awkwardness and remain fragrant then

impeccable social skills

important first step.

in all honesty I think this is what could break the neck of european democracies. If we keep depending on them they have the leverage to seriously threaten the already endangered democratic institutions here.

You don’t seem to understand my point. If I say that there is only one shot we have for a ban, then I don’t mean to say we shouldn’t bother trying, but we should be careful and precise when we do. The bars for banning a political party are (somewhat understandably) high. I’m not opposed to banning the AfD - but speaking pragmatically, if the timing/conditions aren’t right, the prohibition won’t get through.

there is only one real shot at banning the AfD. if the courts decide against it, I assume it would be almost impossible to try again. That’s why I can understand that people are cautious.

I think the major concern is that there is a chance that the ban doesn’t pass the constitutional court. Which obviously would be devastating and ultimately would legitimize the AfD. I’m all for initiating the process, but it has to be done carefully.

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tbh I’d like to see this map with subregions. The differences within a country can be vast. Some of Brazil’s major cities have lower homocide rates than some of the most dangerious cities in the US

wikipedia list ranking cities by homocides per 100000 inhabitants.

São Paulo and Rio de Janeiro, two cities widely regarded as dangerous by brazilians, aren’t even in the top 50 on that list, while there are several major US cities. So I think looking only at the country-level you don’t really get a good picture of violence in the americas